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NOH8

     At Wal-Mart the other day, I saw a woman wearing a Tshirt with the phrase "Haters = Motivators" on the back.  I could not see what the front said, but googled the phrase when I got home.

     The phrase is a new one (to me) in the battle of 'gay rights', a nomer I personally detest.  'Haters equals motivators' is another.  Inspiration and motivation should come from deeper and more meaningful emotions.  Hate is a terrible thing which only damages the hater. 

     I guess, as has been true for many years, I just march to a different drummer.  Even those on these pages who may hold ill feelings toward me and my blogs/comments I only see them as being distraught about a social change they do not agree with.  I don't think of them as 'haters', and with few exceptions, they have never identified themselves as such. By the way, hate the sin, not the sinner is another phrase I dislike.  I like to live without hate for anything.

     Hate impedes the hater's happiness, not the hated. 

     Equality to all in the American way!

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lachowsj
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lachowsj 06/02/14 - 11:00 am
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Voice of reason

Reader, you are certainly a voice of reason and moderation in this discussion. Your ability to rise above the haters is inspirational.

c'mon man
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c'mon man 06/04/14 - 09:46 am
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I disagree with

"By the way, hate the sin, not the sinner is another phrase I dislike. I like to live without hate for anything."

Everyone knows and loves someone who has doing something bad. They hate the act/crime/whatever that person did, but they still love that person. That's the way we should be treating everyone. I hate murder, but I don't hate the murderers. I am commanded to love my enemies and I try to do that to the best of my abilities. My beliefs are rooted in the Bible. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. That doesn't mean I hate homosexuals, it just means I think it is a sin. In God's eyes, it's no worse of a sin than telling a lie, cheating on your taxes, murder, adultery, or any other sin. I don't hate people who do these things either, but I don't like the fact that they did those things.

If we all lived in this way, the world would be a much better place.

mikeng1994
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mikeng1994 06/04/14 - 02:13 pm
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c'mon man...

You know as well as all of us that you can not voice your beliefs, affirm your faith, or have the freedom of speech provided us by the constitution unless all of that falls inline with the Liberal, Gay, Minority view points.

If you do not believe as they do, then you are nothing more than racist, homophobic, white trash. If your not gay, then automatically you're homophobic. If you voted for a Republican in the last 2 presidential elections, you are a racist.

We live in a society of politically correct cry babies, who think participation is enough to overcome the unfairness of life. Youth leagues don't keep score so they don't know what its like to be a loser. Character does not come from being a lemming. It comes from failure and learning it sucks to lose and to fail. too many parents have taught their kids that failure is acceptable as long as you tried. Life doesn't work that way. Failure is supposed to be a bitter taste with nothing to show for it. Not one of ,"Its ok, trying is good enough here's your reward". You have to have the attitude ,"Well I tried and failed, I can do better."

I would say to you, Reader, that the creators of this NOH8 group are nothing more than hypocritical haters themselves. They preach of tolerance and acceptance, but will neither tolerate or accept any other views different from their own. They are people who's own hatred blinds them of the prejudice and contempt they hold for the successful or the traditional viewing conservatives will never let them be credible in their mission.

reader
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reader 06/04/14 - 04:38 pm
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Thanks for sharing

and re-enforcing my points.

lachowsj
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lachowsj 06/04/14 - 07:45 pm
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Perspective

If someone says of a gay person that they "hate the sin, not the sinner", it does feel like hate, even if the speaker doesn't perceive it that way. Because gay is not what someone does but who someone is.

I am not familiar with the NOH8 group but I don't expect that they are "hypocritical haters." I don't believe you are either. You feel attacked for what you have been taught and what you hold as a core belief. They feel attacked when who they are is labeled a sin or a "lifestyle choice." Hard to find the middle ground. But I believe at heart both you and reader are "live and let live" guys.

reader
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reader 06/04/14 - 09:18 pm
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Exactly lachowsj

The founding fathers, so often referenced by the right, were great men, despite their failures, but they were liberals. Otherwise they would have remained loyal to the sovereign, King George of England, as many of the colonists did.

The failure to give equal rights to all races of people and women was due to the paternalistic and superiority complex men suffered in their day.

Only landowners could vote, no women. Black people were only 3/5 of a person, in the original constitution, and had no rights. There were many things in the original constitution which would shock those who live under it today.

Through the freedom espoused by liberal thinkers, many of those things have changed. Today I seek not to change the constitution, but to enforce it, especially the 14th amendment, which guarantees 'equality under the law'. The problem with Mike is he thinks he speaks for everyone with statements like "Nobody cares". Along with the conditioning he received in his youth, he also gathered and uses a plethora of canards from the past.

Well Mike is wrong. People do care and I receive emails and tweets from those who support my campaign to gain equal rights and treatment for everyone, not just LGBTQ people. He misconstrues points made by others, and stands by his canard enforced life. He has the option not to read my posts or blogs, but still does anyway, so he gives away his own true feelings about 'who cares' without even realizing it, although I think it impossible to disabuse him of the notion.

No hate is a great motto for anyone to live by, and I hold none for him or any who disagree and often mock my motives and objectives. My self worth comes from inside me, not from other people.

Igor Rabinowitz
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Igor Rabinowitz 06/06/14 - 03:09 pm
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Um....

Your argument is based on the Founding Dads being liberal and you're mistaken. They were what they were, "Men of reason" being a termed the especially liked, but hardly liberal/conservative in the contemporary sense.

They were (this is a liberal view) business people who wanted to open trade routes with countries other than England, from which they then declared independence. So if anything they were pro-business conservatives.

And for that matter using the examples you point out, social conservatives as well.

Regardless of political position (and the whole bumper-sticker liberal-v-conservative thing would have confused them as much as anything - men of reason prefer informed debate) they were able to construct a republic, and constitutional democracy, which has lasted remarkably well.

In turn allowing its citizens to debate its course, and for that matter history.

You know, since you brought it up.

reader
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reader 06/06/14 - 10:02 pm
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one

My reference was not in terms of today's liberal/conservative positioning. Agreed they were men who preferred reasoned debate. However they were open minded men who sought not only business with other nations, but more importantly, the idea of men as a free by entitlement of, designed and created by God, not a sovereign or King/Queen.

as reference for some who agree:

http://reflectionandchoice.org/2012/08/02/were-the-founding-fathers-libe...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/20/the-founding-liberals/

mikeng1994
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mikeng1994 06/06/14 - 08:05 pm
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I can handle being told I'm

I can handle being told I'm wrong. I just may be. However, I think you confuse my statement of nobody cares, that nobody cares you have equal right. The thing is, I will gladly treat you friendly, respectfully, and equally. When or if we were to cross paths, I don't care if you're gay. You do not have to tell me, because I don't care. I will not tell you I am hetero, because I believe you shouldn't care.

That said, I don't think the parades, the "movement", or any other event are needed. They only serve to [filtered word] off everyone else because deep down they don't care. At least I believe they do not. All the straight people just want all the gays do do as we do, keep it to ourselves.

I will bet you one thing about our liberal founding father. They believed in and worshiped God. They thought poorly of those who didn't. They believed homosexuality was wrong. If they didn't, they would have made sure it was covered when they wrote the constitution. That's not to say it shouldn't have, I'm just saying how they believed, in my opinion

reader
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reader 06/06/14 - 10:18 pm
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"They believed homosexuality was wrong."

"They believed in and worshiped God. They thought poorly of those who didn't. "

Well at least you clarified that at the end with "in my opinion". If you have any evidence to back that up I'd love to see it. There is quite a bit of evidence some of the founding fathers did not "believe in God" and it was the reason for the religious freedom portions of the Constitution, meaning freedom for all religions or none, be it your choice.

As for "They only serve to [filtered word] off everyone else because deep down they don't care. At least I believe they do not. All the straight people just want all the gays do do as we do, keep it to ourselves."

You continue to use superlative adjectives like "All the straight people" and "All the gays". You cannot speak for all straight people or all any people, you can only speak your feelings, which you portray as the feelings of everyone. Now the "All the straight people just want all the gays do do as we do, keep it to ourselves." That line made me spit up my Pouilly Fuisse and literally laugh out loud. My question for that statement is "Since when?"

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